Welcome to the Fight Against Brain Rot

Welcome to the very first episode of "What the Fuck Did You Learn Today?," a podcast for curious minds who want to keep their brains from rotting. I’m your host, Urania Zed—writer, songwriter, overthinker—and this whole thing started with a half-asleep idea I had right before bed. I texted my friend Sara Collin the next morning and said, “Wanna be my first guest?” We met in grad school, bonded over language and humanities, and now both work in education and communications. Lucky for me, Sara was ready to go that same day—because she’d just read this CNN article about the Harriet Tubman Underground Railroad site and was absolutely furious.

In this episode, we talk about why that article hit such a nerve, how storytelling shapes collective memory, and why we need to keep learning. Plus, we get into what it means to really learn something in a world that’s always trying to distract you.

Come for the righteous rage, stay for the brain gains. Let's get into it.

Resources mentioned:

• After a backlash, National Park Service restores old Underground Railroad webpage that prominently features Harriet Tubman, CNN
• The Relativity of Wrong, Issac Asimov, Wikipedia
• Federal Government’s Growing Banned Words List Is Chilling Act of Censorship, PEN AMERICA
• List of monuments and memorials removed during the George Floyd protests, Wikipedia
• US student journalists go dark fearing Trump crusade against pro-Palestinian speech
• Bluesky
• Actor Ashton Kutcher, CNN in Twitter duel, Phys.org
• Yellow Journalism, EBSCO
• Breitbart
• Media Bias
• BBC
• Economist
• Musk reportedly made several pushes for Trump to back off global tariffs surge

Intro/Outro music, "Peace Arrow," by my band Kicking Down Doors.

Transcript

0:22

All right. Hello, and welcome to "what the fuck did you learn today?" The podcast where we ask,"D'Fuck you gonna learn today?""D'Fuck you gonna learn tomorrow?" And my name is Urania Zed, and I'm here with my guest, Sara Collin. Hi. And this is the first time that we're doing a podcast together. Like, I just called her, and she was like, I'll come over today and we'll try this. So this is our first attempt. We are. We both work in education. I've worked in education for most of my career. And, Sara, if you want to... I've done a mix of communication realms and education, so half and half. Yeah. And so we just want to talk about learning. Like, this podcast is about, what are you learning? We are. And it's mostly like, adults. Like, you know, we. We. I've been out of college for 22 years, and I don't know about you, but I just graduated last year, so there you go. But, you know, I. We find ourselves in an environment where education is just under attack, and it doesn't make any logical sense. And just saying that, "logical sense" makes me wonder, like, what does that mean to people? Like, I think education is so important to people, to societies, to humanity. And the fact that we have entered an age where there's this hostility to learning things and questioning things and a hostility to being open to being wrong, or a hostility to being open to having your beliefs questioned, it's very concerning. And so that's why we're here. And so before we get started, anything, Sarah, do you want to kind of just give an opening spiel or, you know, anything? There's so many things. So this morning I woke up and I opened Blue sky, and I noticed that the Rolling Stone had an article about the National Park Service removing the word "slavery" from their From their website. I've recently found out, though, that it was removed until the third paragraph. So it wasn't, like, fully removed, but it was taken out. They fully took out the Fugitive slave Act of 1850, which was pretty disturbing. They kind of glossed over Harriet Tubman to kind of make her just seem like someone who helped with racial tension, as if, like, there was just, you know, just a random racial tension or just like, Like, this environment is so tense. Yeah, like. Like why? I wonder why that would be. Why. Why would it be tense? I was so mad. I feel like I spent the remaining part of my day just angry and trying to figure out, like, what we could do to fix this situation. But back to education. That's something I learned today. But back to education, like, one thing I found disturbing is when people learn new information, sometimes they just still hold true to their own beliefs, and they don't allow this new information to change their mind. And I feel like that kind of mindset is really problematic right now, especially. But in general, that's a bad thing. Like, if you feel like, hey, I want to touch the stove, it's hot, and you touch it and you learn that it's hot, you continue to do that, that's a problem. So you need to get rid of that. I agree. So this. This bit of information, how did it kind of come to you? You said you were. You were at work or. No, I just. I woke up and I turned on blue sky. Okay. Blue sky. So social media. Social media. In today's social media world, a lot of us, we learn, we look, we learn a lot of things from social media. And it's like, I don't hate social media. I really don't. Like, I've worked in communications for a long time. Like, I was on Twitter in, like, 2006, when I think it was, well, no, 2007, 2008. But I remember when, like, Ashton Kutcher challenged CNN to, like, a million followers, and whoever got the million followers first, they were gonna donate bed nets. And I remember thinking, like, oh, my God, like, how cool is that that we're using this new Twitter social media thing to, like, do stuff? Like, yeah, like, there was some vanity involved. Like, oh, like, who can get to a million followers but also, like, bed nets? Like, who's the hell is talking about bed nets even today? You know what I mean? I don't actually know what a bed net is, so I'm going to learn something right now. What's a bed net? So here's where "did I really learn what a bed net is?" But so back when, when I was working in, like, nonprofit land, I learned from our public health expert that malaria was this, like, horrible disease. And one of the main kind of just like not low cost, but, like, practical ways of trying to reduce people being affected by By malaria was using bed nets over their beds to just keep mosquitoes out. I now know what a bed is, but I never heard they were called that. So I didn't know the name of it. I just knew it as this thing that. Yeah, exactly. No, and that's the thing with learning. Like, we all have different ways of perceiving information, of understanding, of recalling information, of visualizing information, and it's like, that's. That's cool. But. And it's like, we all have this capacity to do that on some level. Like, we're not elitists. Like, we went to college. We met at college, but And we're not, like, out here, like, "oh, my college is better than your college." Or, like, you know, like, because college is fucking expensive. Like, you know, and so going back to that, it's like, we all have this. These ways of processing information. And so, yeah, like a bed net, I remember, like, because it's just. It's a weird. It's a weird name. And if you're not like, thinking specifically about, you know, what. What it might be used for, like, what the fuck Is a bed net? You know, is it to keep you from falling out of your bed onto the floor? Like, what is this? Is this for bedbugs? Is this for, like. Or is this something else? Yeah, so. So. Yeah. So back to so social media. So you were. You were scrolling through blue. Blue sky or blue ski, some people might say. My instinct, when I first saw that word, I was like, blue ski, but blue sky, I'm not sure. Yeah, actually, that's a good. We're learning something else. We need to find that out. Call up the blueski blue sky person. But anyway, it was posted by Rolling Stone. So I ended up reading the article on Rolling Stone. Okay. And that's how I learned it. And then I wanted to double check. So I, like, looked up CNN this morning. Not this morning. Yeah, a few minutes ago, this evening. And gather some more information. So you're one of the. See, you're one of the few people see, and I might be breaking this down too much. So you were scrolling blue sky. You saw a piece of information. You were like, "let me click on it." Like, you actually left. Clicked on the link. You're like, "let me see what Rolling Stone has to say." And then you were like, "all right, let me look this up further and go see what CNN has to say." And I say that because even then, like, that's a very specific series of actions of how we go about, like, not only seeking information, you see something. And rather than just be like, "oh, that must be true. Let me get mad," or let me, you know, tell my friend about what I saw without verifying, like, there's just a few steps clicking to go to the article from the Rolling Stone saying, you know, what the... Rolling Stone is a music rag. Like, they, you know, they. They talk about music. What do they know about About this issue? Let me Check it with cnn. Let me. And then CNN has some more information. Like that process. We can all do that. Like, and I, I know social media doesn't like you to leave, you know, but it's like, that's, that's. Why else would you have an app like that? Why else would you, you know, have a place where you're just passively scrolling and not even thinking to like, follow up or look a little bit further? So I wanted to point that out because, like, it's a very, like, I feel like we take even that process for granted these days because we're all just passively accepting what's in front of our screens. So sorry to. Oh, no, I think that's great. That's like an excellent way to show like, the importance of that, especially if, if anyone out there is currently in school. It's really important to like, find out if your sources are accurate and get as much information as you can go directly to the source. So if you're writing an article about Oprah, go talk to Oprah if you can. Probably can't. But if you can do it, like, you know, go, go directly to the source if you possibly can do that. And if Oprah's listening, I would love to meet you. Right? Yeah. Oprah, come on and tell us what the fuck Did you learn today? That be great. But then I did get mad. So I know there was one thing that you, you were like, okay, you didn't just get mad? No, I, I read first and then I got furious. The rest of the day I was just furious. Still, still really mad about that. Because when we start taking away information, that's a problem because now we're like hiding the truth. So in Germany, they have very few areas where they have artifacts of like Nazism that's pretty much kind of hush hush. But there is one museum, at least one. But there's one museum in Munich that has it. And they show the way that they indoctrinated kids. They have like books that they had. They have like, what they would write on the boards. They have, you know, like little kid uniforms, all sorts of stuff in there. And on one hand, like, I see why people would want to completely get rid of that history because they're like, we don't want this anymore. We don't want to be this. But by keeping it, it shows. Like, hey, this happened and we need to face the fact that this is part of our history. Like, okay, maybe, you know, we weren't alive then, fine. But like, this happened and we can't Forget that. Because we can't have this keep We can't have this keep repeating. Because it does. Yeah, well, I guess to. To. To throw a controversial question into that pot. What did you think about a few years ago when they were taking down Confederate Statues and all of that? Like, so I had a very controversial view, but I thought that we should have removed them, put them in a museum, and called it the America Shame Museum. And then we can still see it, but we don't have to, like, walk by and be like, oh, there's a Confederate guy who wanted to, like, kill a lot of my friends. Right. I don't want to see that. Like, no one should have to see that, but shouldn't disappear. Yeah. Because it is history, and we need to remember that history and not just be like, oh, let's just take away, you know, the Fugitive Slave act in this national website. We can't. We can't get rid of the history. We have to face it. That's how I felt. But how did you feel of it? Well, I guess going further because, again, honestly, obviously, I have a certain, like, perspective in the world, like, I'm a black woman, and so, like, anything that has to do with Confederacy or slavery or anything like, before, like, you know, 1850 or whatever is just not great for. For me or my family or my people, whatever. But I. So you. Yes, I remember when I saw that, I was like, oh, like, that's interesting. Yeah. I guess in some ways it's offensive to have a building named after some guy who, like, had slaves or who, you know, who wanted to decimate or keep slaves or who wanted to subjugate people who look like me. The other side of me, though, especially now, where we're in a We're literally watching how, like, civil rights are being repealed because, like, there is also a A bunch of people who believe that that stuff is right. And that's like. And so I keep coming back to that. Like, I keep... And. And I didn't get here overnight. Like, I've had to kind of sit with my own I guess it's a bias. But it's also, like, I feel like we kind of grew up in a society where people were trying to have this, like, moral or, like, just, like, human center where we're like, you know what? Yeah, we've. We've had some shitty ideas about certain people that don't look like us or people, like, different types of races or, you know, cultures that we either Either we didn't understand or, like, some people Just didn't like and hated. And so, like, I think about that because I'm like, well, clearly there are people who think that my culture sucks. Like, you know what I mean? Or like the culture of acknowledging, you know, the subjugate, the subjugation of people for. For labor or whatever. Like, some people think, yeah, that's fucking great. Like, let's keep doing that. Like, and so that I keep coming back to that whenever I see things like that. Like, obviously, like, the Nazis thought they were fucking awesome. Like, you know, so it's like, how do you reconcile that? Or. I don't even think you can reconcile. Like, you have to be able to hold these thoughts in your brain at the same time and then, like, figure out, okay, what do I do with these things? What do I do knowing that someone's reality thinks that that's okay. And so, so that's kind of how I. I think about that because it's I and I. And I think I have to think about it even more because we are seeing right now that a lot of people that ex. You know, that. And some people I like. I know some people who like, have these ideas or at least voted for these types of ideas to be the predominant value of the time. So. Yeah. So do you feel that the statue should have stayed or been removed? You know, I guess I feel like, yes, it, like, because again, if I'm not a democracy, like scholar or a populist scholar or. And I probably couldn't even tell you the difference between democracy and populism, like populism. But I think if enough people were like, "this is wrong to have this statue here," you know, especially if it's for, like an important landmark, it's in front of a school that, like, people of all cultures go to. Yeah. Like, if the common, if the prevailing attitude is that fuck this guy, get him out of here, fuck that guy, get him out of here. But I, I do like the idea of preserving it somewhere like a museum of shame or, you know, something where it's like, yeah, like, at one time people thought this was cool and now we don't. And here is, you know, and here's why. So, you know, I do. I do think that, yes, that's how, like, a society works or democracy works or like, when you have people who think, who, you know, if you have some type of agreed upon set of values that say this is right and wrong or this is, you know, generally better for the people than not. Yeah. Then, yeah, you do those types of things. So, yeah, you know, but again, like, and it's never clearly, it's never static because those things can be overturned, which every day just angrier and angrier with a smile. Angrier and angrier every single day. Yes. What's that? You have to, you have to laugh because you're just like, how else are you going to. Like, how else do we keep. Like, how else do we cut through this? Comedians, like, every day. Yeah. Laughter is best. Like, the Onion is really helpful. Except that, like, I feel like the Onion, their articles are getting closer and closer to the truth or are true at this point. Like, Right. Like, what is satire? What, what, what is satirical? Like, it's like, I don't. I'm not quite sure Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Also, do you want to point out the National Park Service was forced to do this? It is not the National Park Service who's like, hey, I want to take all this information down. They were forced to through dei. So shout out to the alternative. Alt National Park Service. Yeah. On Blue sky or Blue Ski or Instagram and all of the social media sites and all the sites who are doing their part into helping preserve history and fight back. So. Yes. Yeah. I, I, I'm curious, like, if you're a media channel or if you're a, you know, a service like alt National Parks or, you know, like, how, what, like, what are your discussions like, when, you know, now we've got words that are banned and, you know, like, we've got, we've got social media being scoured for dissent. And it's like, I thought that was okay. Like, I thought the First Amendment was, the First Amendment was still in play. Like, I hope that's the case. It seems like not so much the case if you're on college campuses, which is crazy because education is where... they're adults. So first off, you're an adult. So if you're in high school and you, there's no technical free speech in high school, but once you are an adult, you're in college or you're just out in public. Public, you have free speech. Right. You can't yell fire in a crowded room, but you can yell other things. You can yell racist things in a crowded room and you don't need to be arrested. Yeah, but you can't yell something supporting like, Palestine now, like, at a college campus. Like, I'm not, I'm not sure. And, and it doesn't like, you know, it doesn't matter where you fall. The fact that free speech is being taken away is a problem. Problem. Because if they're coming for someone who disagrees with you, they will come for you too. And that's going to happen across the board because ultimately I feel like under this administration, at some point we're all going to be affected. It just depends on when we start caring. Yeah. You know. Yeah. And that's, that's so wild. Like, what, like what the. Is the end game here? Like, and I'm sure, because, you know, there is a goal, like, there's a plan. Like, I, it's funny because like, we're talking about, you know, just learning and education and thinking and, And I, I. There have been articles written about this. I'm not the first person to say this, but like, or I say "articles." People have posted about this on the Internets and on social media. I don't know if it's fact checked or whatever, but I. There was this sentiment that resonated with me about they. Someone was saying, don't call the other side stupid or like, don't call the president stupid because clearly they're not stupid. Like, you know what I mean? Like, the things that they're doing aren't stupid things like the way that they're, the way that the administration is operating. It's not a stupid. These aren't stupid actions. Like, this is very organized. This is very strategic. Like, yeah, it's very. For sure deliberate. Yeah. You know, like, a lot of these people are kind of, in terms of communication, coming from a person who's worked in communications. They are masters in their craft of mind control in a way. Like, they are crafting a narrative that people are believing and eating up. And the people who don't believe it are. We're so upset. Like, it's affecting all of us. And so I think part of it is just like calling it stupid. Like, yeah, it's underestimating it. I think it fundamentally, it's underestimating the mind or like, you know, the way someone else is thinking, the way someone else is, you know, strategizing to get something done or the end goal. And I think at the end of the day, like, I think that is. It's still a very touchy subject of like, why many people might think that education is stupid or that education is not for them or they don't see themselves as having to be smart. Like, I think I go back to like, I'm sure we were both kids, you know, growing up, you know, going to your first day of school in kindergarten or. And I'm sure you experienced at some point realizing that being smart was not always good. Like there were kids who would make fun of you for being smart or, like, knowing answers? I mean, we see it in movies. Like, if you're a Harry Potter person, Hermione Granger was, the know-it-all, and somehow that's bad. And like, I remember coming up in school and I was guilty of it too. You know, there was always someone who was, always had the answers, and there was always, there was always that reaction of like, oh, like the nerd. Or, oh, you, you know, there was like this hatred of someone who knew things or who was like, you know, had a brain and was using it and wasn't afraid to, like, have the answer. And I think we're seeing this on, like, a grander scale. And it's so, it's so dangerous to me because, like, what, why? Since when is it bad to have ideas to, you know, to be right or to, like, be excited about wanting to be right? Yeah, you know, like, or, like, be excited about, you know, I don't know, like, just being enthusiastic about something that you have in your brain and something that you, you want to let other people know, like, oh, I have the answer to this. Like, I've done my work, you know, like, and I, I, and I don't. Again, I don't, I don't know why that's such a pervasive trend, but it seems to be, and it seems to be playing out. Yeah, no, it definitely, it definitely is. You know, and, and I, I guess there's some class involved. Again, I, I'm not, I'm just reiterating, like, I was not top of my class and I have no research on these things. But, like, some things, like class are even more, like, at least present or at least if you're reading the news, if you're reading social media, if you're, like, listening to some of the narratives that are coming out, there's definitely this. Well, I think the word elitist started coming around, what, maybe 15, 2016. Ish. Maybe before. But 2016 was like a bit. Big buzzword. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, okay, like, I get, like, I, if, if you. Elitist can mean a lot of different things. Usually, you know, it's because you have a lot of resources and you're trying to be better and you're keeping people out. But that is a thing that, that doesn't necessarily. It's not tied to, like, education or it's not tied to what, you know. Like, those are just things that basically you're keeping, you're keeping certain people out of opportunities or areas because you think that they don't belong there. And so I just, I don't know. I, I don't know where I'm going with. I don't, I don't know if I have like an end point and if I did, I lost it. But I, I really hate that that word is associated with education. And I don't care. Like, I know earlier I said like, yeah, we, you know, we didn't go to, you know, Harvard or whatever. And there's nothing wrong with going to Harvard. Like, there's nothing wrong with having, you know, having these tiers of excellence. Like, that's not bad and, but I just don't. We can't be spiraling down this horrible hole to like unquestioning non thinking, tribal gut reaction. Look, I don't even know what the word is. Like, I get like, just what is that? Like, what is it? Like? Like kind of like a, it's group think, but like more than that because you not only have the group think, but then you isolate yourself from anyone else's viewpoints. And I feel like, like that's kind of like what I was saying with, with the journalists and the college journalists. College journalists are now afraid to write. So a lot of them are saying, "hey schools, can you take down my name? Like I'm getting death threats." Yeah, that's horrifying. So like, yeah, regardless of what you think, you know, on, on the topic of the Middle east, like, I feel like there's a lot going on. It's been going on for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years. Right? So yes, however passionate you feel, college students are just learning about it, they're fairly young and they should be allowed to express their views on it without feeling like they're going to die. You know, I mean, that's just a traumatizing thing to not be able to think. And I feel like school is the time time where you're supposed to be able to have these ideas, communicate them, sort them out in your mind and then come to your own conclusions as you continue to age and learn things. It's just, it's very frustrating that that ends up being a problem. And then on the other side, there, there is like the mindset sometimes where people who are progressive and like, agree with like things that we agree with. Right. Yeah. Shut people out too, who don't agree with us, who maybe we could maybe reach if we are communicating with people. Right. I don't know. You know, I know that most of the time it doesn't work, you know, Most times it leads to, like, hurt feelings, anger, and all that kind of frustration. But sometimes it does work. And I, I know personally that I've changed the mind of some people. That's awesome. But there's not that many. And I know personally that my mind has been changed by some people too. So I think being able to have open dialogues is really important and helpful, especially at a time when our own thoughts might be cut out. So. Right. If we isolate ourselves more, our thoughts are going to be cut out more. We need to have these dialogues because we're already being told we can't say certain things. We're going to cross this out from, you know, that that can't happen. What? Yeah, what is that? Like, I remember that. Was that like a month ago where they had this list of words and it was like "equity" and like "access." Like, like, like words like we would use for many things. I think the word "woman" was on there. Like, it was just like, you can't write. What? Yeah, like what? Why? You know, like, I. I know that there are schools out there who have changed DEI to a different name. And, you know, hats off to them for doing that because they're preserving it for their schools so that it can still exist. But the fact that people have to do that. Yeah, it's like, why? Because. And there, there was this teacher who, who got in trouble for putting up, like, very inclusive. You belong kind of. Right. Everyone is welcome here. Like, that's a problem. Everyone's welcome here. That's a problem. And they said that, like, oh, it wasn't educational. It's not like it is educational because if kids don't feel valued, they're not going to learn, but if they feel welcome, they're going to want to learn. And then they said something like, oh, it's. It's that, the atmosphere, you have to create that welcoming environment. But people learn in different ways. As you mentioned. One of those ways is through reading. So if someone sees that sign and they feel that sign, they see the pictures and they see those words, that is helping them to feel welcome. Just saying it, talking about it, you know, I mean, we all have those, you know, our types of love. Yeah. It's also that for types of learning too. So. So we need to make sure we're addressing, making people feel welcome so that they can feel okay. Communicating, learning, talking, being in a classroom. Yes. Anyway. So mad of everything. No, it's hard not to open your phone or your computer just exist without being bombarded with a piece of information. And again, this all comes back. We are constantly learning something. Like, you know, I'm looking, behind me is my computer. And like, I'm seeing there's a weather alert that, you know, it's telling me there's an alert about the weather. And I'm like, oh, it's everything. We have so many things popping up on our screens or in front of us. We got people calling, texting us. Like, every moment of the day is a learning opportunity in a lot of different ways. Like, I'm trying to think of, like, you know, I was just, I was just looking at my, my phone and someone was calling me, and I'm like, thinking, like, what would, you know, what would that. What. What would I learn from who was calling me? You know? And it's like, how am I going to process that and what am I going to do about that? And I just think it's a shame that we have these tools that deliver information to us all the time, but yet. And we're so inundated with the information that these tools provide that they're actually in some ways, like, detrimental to our thinking. And that's. And I say that because I was doing, doing some ChatGPT research and I was just trying to figure out, like, you know, in terms of critical thinking, like, what are some things that critical thinking. What are things you can do to, like, help critical thinking? When I say "critical thinking," I'm sure I'm not saying"critical race theory." Okay? Critical thinking is different from critical race theory. For anyone who. Not that it would be wrong if we decided to talk about critical race theory, that'd be perfectly okay. The word "critical" is. Can be applied to a lot of different phrases, but critical thinking, I almost feel like critical thinking is like a, Is a. Seen as to some as like an elitist or a buzzword. Like, because, you know, it was used in news articles because, like, oh, the critical thinking skills of our young people are, you know, are, Are eroding. And, and in some ways, yes, like, it is. There's a reason why people can't determine whether an email is real or if it's spam or fake or, you know, people get phished, you know, and so I, I brought, I bring up critical thinking because it really, at its very basis is just kind of like if you perceive something, whether it's something you're reading on paper, like words. And I understand some people cannot read words, that's fine. You can still process stimuli that you see. Like you can process something on a piece of paper. And even if you can't read it, you can say,"oh, I wonder what this says. Hey, can you read this to me?" Or. And it's like that act is an act of critical thinking. It's going beyond just accepting something that's presented to you in whatever way, whether it's with your eyes, with your ears, through smell, you know, through our senses. And you're using that information to take it a step further, further to understand what that information is, how it relates to you, how you want to respond to it. You know, like, how it. How you. How it. How it kind of affects your place in the world. Yeah. And I think that's not a bad thing. We have to do these things. Critical thinking is not. It doesn't have to be. Like some, you know, fancy. Like, oh, well, "I made a hypothesis and now I need to test it." Like, it doesn't have to be. And it's fine. Like, if you do that. Great. Like, please keep doing that. Like, we need more of this. But, like, but I, I say that because when I was asking ChatGPT to help me understand how I can, you know, kind of keep my critical thinking skills up. But also, what is a detriment to critical thinking? It's. It had a list of things like lack of sleep. It had a list of things like echo chambers and groupthink, information overload. Like, these are all things that we deal with. Even if we are, you know, active critical thinkers. All of this is also contributing to us, kind of not like maybe like, eroding those functions or like, losing the. Even the focus to apply those very, like, important skills. And I can't remember why I started talking about that. So I forget too, but I do. I'm not sure. I did write down when you mentioned, like, with, like, critical thinking, and I don't remember exactly what you said, but it spoke. Sparked the memory that I wanted. I wanted to say this earlier, but I forgot. But anyway, so government. One of the ways to, like, start controlling people is to get rid of the belief that there are facts or that there's news and that things are accurate. So when you start to distrust the media, then they're able to control you more. Because suddenly, like, whatever their media is or whatever they're saying becomes a fact. So then everyone is scrambling to try to figure out, oh, well, now I can't trust Fox News anymore because I'm a progressive. And now, you know, they're saying, like, oh, now I can't trust CNN anymore because they're progressive. So, like, everything, like, goes Back and forth, like, as to, like, what you can trust, what you can't trust. And then it gets so discombobulated that, like, it's hard to have a conversation with people who don't agree because they just going to say, well, your media is wrong. Or like, you're on Blue sky and you got your information from Blue sky today. And it's like, well, yes, but I also got it from Rolling Stone and also cnn. But you don't agree with cnn. Probably don't agree with Rolling Stone either, because these facts are facts that you don't think are facts. But you could go to the web page itself and you could see it there and then you could formulate your own opinion. But I feel like there's a danger in not having news sources that we all can say, oh, okay, this is our news. But one of the issues with that is like "yellow journalism" where you have opinions and there's opinions happening every day. So that that's a problem. We could get rid of that and that would probably make things different. Or if we have things where we say, here is our, like, op-ed section of CNN and Fox News and all the other sources. But the rest of the time we're not going to have any commentary. We're going to just tell you the news exactly how it is. We're going to leave out as many buzzwords as we possibly can. There's still always a bias when you. Even what you choose to say, that's a bias. And what you choose to leave out, that's a bias. Everything's a bias. But you can try your hardest to just say stuff without using. Yeah. Adjectives. You know, take out as many adjectives as possible. Some might be important, but take out as many as you can and say the news. And I think that that would be really helpful. But I don't know, people still might not agree that it's real. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, gosh. Now that, that just you saying that reminded me because remember there was that there's still a. It's a great graphic. And it's like, it's, it shows like the media bias chart kind of. And it kind of shows you like, you know, the ones that are on the left, the ones that are on the right, the ones in the middle. And it just makes me think like, I'm glad something like that exists. Like whoever made. I can't remember who exactly. There's a few of them, there's not just one, but like, the fact that that exists is good, but it's also like, it. It makes me, like, wonder, like, when the fact that there are so many of those sites and there's a proliferation of news sites and websites and just content now, and I think at what point will those news sites become either irrelevant or just drowned out? And I feel like that that's kind of what's happening now. Like, there's so much extra noise and content that's being created by whoever in. It's, you know, we're creating content. And yeah, you know, we, We. We have good intentions. I swear. We love you. We love everyone. But, you know, there's so much of it now. It's like, at what point will the trusted sources just get drowned out or, you know, not be able to? And maybe that. Maybe that's already happened. Like, maybe that's what we're seeing. Like, you know, I personally, like. I like the. I, I like to read the BBC. I like to read the Economist. Those are kind of my main two. I, I really. I do enjoy the Atlantic, even though I know. I guess there people view them as liberal. They have really great stories and like, like, factual stories. Like, you know, and. But I guess the fact that, like, even if I were to recommend those sites to someone thinking that, yeah, these are, like, they're gonna say... Yeah. They'll say, no, it's lies or it's twisted. It's, you know, they're not telling you the truth. And it's like, well, how do you know? Like, you know, because it's not like I'll swat away someone else, you know, sending me an article from, I don't know, Breitbart or whatever. Like, yeah, I know those other places exist. Like, you know, I, I'm. I'm sure whoever's writing them believes in what they're writing, or they believe that they want you to believe what they're writing for some purpose. My cat is, oh, hello down here. But I just. It's just like, I guess, how did we. When we started consuming this information on the Internet, I don't know if anyone actually thought about the implications of what would happen when we're so flooded with information and none of us can tell, none of us can. None of us have the time nor the patience or maybe just even the interest to get to the bottom of what is real, what is true, what is. Or, like, what are the different shades of truth? And I think that that can't be lost. I'm trying. There's an article that my partner shared with me, and I can't remember the, you know, What? Well, my. I would look it up on my phone, but that'll be for the next episode. But it's basically. You want me to. Yeah, like, I. I can't remember if it's Isaac Asimov, but it's. It has something to do with, like, the degree of being right or wrong. There. There are degrees of wrongness and rightness, and I can't. For some. I don't know why Isaac Asimov popped into my head. Maybe he. Maybe he wrote something like that. But yes, okay. In his essay, "the Relativity of Wrong," he argues that there are degrees of wrongness and that being wrong in one way isn't necessarily as being bad in. Isn't necessarily as bad as being wrong in another. Yes, so that makes sense. I mean, I think, yes, there are certain things. I mean, if you're going to commit a crime. I remember this in fourth grade we had one of my, like, fellow classmates. Like, his older brother was in college and he was studying to be a psychology major. And so he interviewed all of us and they asked, you know, stealing wrong. Like, would you steal from a grocery store or pharmacy or anything? We're all like, no, no, we'd never do that, or whatever. And then he said, okay, is it wrong if you have no money and you're married and your, like, partner is dying and. And they need this medication and you don't have money to get it? And the only way to get it is if you steal it. There's no other way. And everyone's like, oh, okay, then I guess it's all right. Like, most of us agreed, like, okay, some people still thought it was still wrong, but most of us were like, okay, well, it's wrong, but it's not wrong anymore because it's going to save a life. So I always thought that that was really kind of interesting because there are all these areas and I feel like it is important, like, what you brought up, like, that's really important because when we're communicating with people, if you know the reasons why they think the way they think. Yeah. It does often take away the harshness of it. Like, yeah, yeah, that's true. And that's again, that I think it's. You also have to be open to. To seeing that person as someone that you are at least curious about their perspective. Because the opposite of that, I think, is just this lack of being curious or even wanting to try and understand someone else's point of view. And maybe that's another episode. But I think a fundamental aspect of. Of learning, like, you have to be open to it, like, you have to want. There has to be some type of underlying motivation to open your mind or at least, like, allow your mind to be manipulated, I guess, in a way where you still have control over it, but you are open to possibilities that even you didn't think existed. And I wish that that was something that everyone sought or, you know, pursued the way my cat is pursuing my hand to pet his head. I wish. My great wish for the world is that each individual who has a brain might use it to seek out possibilities that they didn't, you know, that they could not imagine to exist in many ways, shapes or forms. But I don't know how long. Oh, we're at 45 minutes already. Oh, wow, this is good. We did. All right. Well, I think we might. I might try and, like, and wrap this up maybe with like a. We'll come back to our closing thoughts. So, you know, thank you for sharing what the fuck You learned today. Thank you. I obviously, I learned many things just while speaking with you. And, you know, the thing that I kind of just very recently learned today was how to set up this station to try and make a podcast. Because, you know, as of last night, when I thought, you know what? I'm gonna try and make a podcast today, I think I figured out how to record this thing. So that was what I. That was what the. I learned today. Among other things. I mean, I, I would probably the next episode because, you know, in the news, I'll. We can do like a wrap up of things, just current events in the news. Obviously, we've got tariffs. We've got the stock market. But the tariff thing has been interesting to me because again, I'm no, I'm no high scholar here. Charles has entered the chat. But I, I've, I've always. I've been familiar with this word tariffs, but I couldn't tell you what tariffs mean. Like, I, like, I know that they're some form of penalty or tax, but I'll tell you, I've seen the word. I've seen it in the news this past, what, week or so, and I couldn't tell you the first thing about what the fuck tariffs are or what they mean other than we're trying to get money from other countries. I mean, well, you know, so, you know, that's something that I think I will be learning more about because. Because I have no idea. And I think part of it is like, how would I. How would I go about learning something like that? Yeah, I might start looking on Wikipedia. I might read some articles. I've already read articles about tariffs, but I couldn't, I literally could not explain to you, like how they fit into domestic or foreign policy. Like, I know they're related, but I couldn't explain that shit. So. So I know a little bit about tariffs, but that could be another episode. Yeah, exactly. For sure. But one, one of the things, I mean historically it's usually used to kind of get countries to change, like negotiate and kind of change. Like certain policies can be like a tariff war, like trade war type thing. So typically we try not to typically use them too harshly, especially on our allies. So. Yes. But one of the new things that I learned today is that Elon Musk has changed his views on tariffs and now he wants a zero-tariff policy for Europe. I believe that I read that correctly, hopefully. Okay. Yeah. All right. So it sounds like we've had. We've got some changing minds of. But, but Trump does not agree with him. So we're going to see what happens with that. That we will. So we'll see what the they learn. Yeah. And then what we learn when they either do or don't learn from each other. Well, I am so glad that we were able to do this. Maybe someone out there somewhere will see this or hear us talking and send a question. I don't have an email address yet, but when I do post this, I will have an email address for questions, comments. If you want to reach out and learn more about this podcast, learn more about maybe even doing a guest spot. If you're interested in telling us what the fuck you learned, we are all ears. But until then, say bye, Charles. I'm Urania Zed and this is Sara Collin and thank you. And I will close out with,"D'Fuck you gonna to learn tomorrow?" Thanks for joining. Bye guys.